Brandon:
I am here with Cliff Rigano, who is the vocalist of Dry Kill Logic, which is a band that I've listened to. I'm in my mid-thirties, I've listened to this band, listened to your voice for more of my life than I have not, which is like a crazy thing to say. So it's super, super fantastic to have you on. How are you? How are you doing today?
Cliff:
Good man, appreciate it. Thank you. That is quite a statement when you tee it up that way. So I'm honored to have been a part of that much of your life, my friend. Thank you for having me on today. I appreciate it.
Brandon:
Well, yeah, to kind of, not to, I feel like I always do this with guests, it's because I love artists, I love music so much, that's why I do this. I've listened to your band now, and I'm an amateur guitarist, amateur vocalist, that kind of thing, just like in my spare time. And your band kind of came from the era, especially you guys, and I would say like Killswitch Engage, and then some others like Chevelle or Korn or whatever else were really of that era that really got me to like get into really rhythmic aggressive music that was still accessible, right? For a lot of people.
And so I'm happy to have you on. I was absolutely ecstatic when you all came back. I think it was 2018 when the announcement was that you came back after quite a long time. I think the last album or the last era of you guys was around 2007 or so, then came to new material up until 2019 when you put out your "singles era," I would say for your band. And that kind of brings us to the point of your newest song that you've put out on May 2nd, which is "Now You Belong with the Dead." So again, I'm saying this way too much, but happy to have you on.
I thought what we would do today is I'd break down a little bit of your influences, especially when it comes to the newer music you've put out, how the music industry has changed a little bit and what you've maybe seen from that is someone that has worked in very different eras of music and what's coming forward through the band and everything like that. I also like to break down songs with people. Some people like to kind of keep lyrics a little, what's the word I'm looking for, a little abstract, but if you're willing to break down the newest song, I think that'd be a fun thing to do too and kind of see what's going forward with the band too.
But to start things off with kind of an icebreaker, I always like to do this with bands that kind of see where your heads at as far as a listener goes, like what you've been listening to a lot lately, whether it's new bands, whether you've been jamming an old record, whether it's the biggest band in the world you're jamming or some band that you think nobody's heard of. What have you kind of been listening to lately, like your Spotify on repeat or the equivalent of? What have you been listening to a lot lately?
Cliff:
Yeah, it's interesting. If I'm on Spotify, I'm usually like in a place where I'm actively listening. And if I'm actively listening to like, metal and whatnot, I'm a big fan of Orbit Culture, big fan of Angel Maker. I really like the new Sleep Token album. So, Knocked Loose and Kublai Khan and all of today's top bands. I'm so inspired by where music is and just how it continues to reinvent itself and be fresh and new, but still exciting. So as somebody that hasn't necessarily been in the scene for a long time, I really enjoy kind of getting up to speed on everything. But at the same time, if I'm passively listening and I'm like in my car or I'm doing something like that, I'm generally on like SiriusXM and I'm listening to something like Rock the Bells radio, which is like the classic hip hop station because that reminds me of like my formative years kind of being a teenager and whatnot, early 20s. I like the nostalgia, but I also like the contemporary aspect. Just depends on what I'm in the mood for at the moment, what I'm doing.
Brandon:
Yeah, you're kind of like me where like you're all over the place, right? Like that's what most people are like. I think a lot of people, because of online commentary from metalhead like elitist type people, Sleep Token's a very polarizing band, I think, for a lot of like newer metal fans or like the online discourse, which is a horrible thing to get into. But uh, but I'm happy to hear that. Seems like you're a very eclectic guy. So you said you're into Knocked Loose, Kublai Khan, Sleep Token, along with obviously the more classic music you're alluding to. I just ask this because this band has been, they're now the "largest" in the metal scene band I think I've seen in a long time. And I think they've done that both with marketing and ingenuity with their music.
The newest album from Sleep Token, Even in Arcadia has been like a little bit more polarizing than I think their last one. What did you think of it overall? And what do you think of like the sort of, you seem like an easy-going guy. You're probably like, "I don't give a fuck." Right. But what do you think of like the sort of, see like a lot of mainstream radio hosts from, especially in the UK, where the band's from or whatever else that kind of like are giving pretty like a negative scathing opinions of it that it's not metal, that it's not good or whatever. I personally think it's enjoyable. I like the previous album more, but I think it's very good. What's kind of your thought on that and kind of like that thought that people have in general of like what metal is, I guess. You know what I mean?
Cliff:
Yeah, to your point, I think that my personal tastes are pretty eclectic and I can be all over the map with what I like. If I'm, if I'm hanging out in the summertime outside, having a beer, I probably want to listen to some country music, or if I'm having awesome dinner and cocktails, I probably want to hear some sick jazz. Like there's, I think music is to me, I think music is something that's just incredibly personal. There's no right, there's no wrong. I guess if I had to offer a perspective on everything you're saying, and I've heard about it, don't know much about it. I again, I'm not in that level of conversation. For me, I think the only way you can ever really be a master at something is to formally acknowledge and accept the idea that you could never be a master at it.
So the idea of music and what is right and what is wrong, there are no such things. Those terms are far too linear. It's just, is it art and does it move you? Knowing that it can be completely subjective. And I think for a band like Sleep Token, the part that I'm just most fascinated by and "Emergence" has just been on repeat on my phone, it's definitely gonna pop up. It's definitely gonna pop up on my top listens this year, but there's just something about the depth and scope and range of his voice and the songwriting and the fact that you have these melodies that are downtuned but still singable. It just, I listen to it and it just, makes me realize that there are so many ways to think about melody, to think about song structure, to think about how to engage an audience.
And I think that's, that's for me is what it is. I can offer no opinions on is it, or isn't it, I don't know. Who the fuck am I? But I just think it's so fascinating to listen to all of this new music. I mean, again, the brutality of Kublai Khan and like the fact that the singer from Knocked Loose looks like an absolute stalker on that stage. Just a dead-eyed stalker. Like I am so riveted by the personalities and the performance and the musicality and like, I just think it's all so awesome. So I don't know. Again, I just resigned myself to the idea that I'm just a fan. I just think it's all great. There's no wrong answers. I've been told in my career that we're never anything anybody ever wants us to be. So what does any of it mean anyway? As long as it resonates and you enjoy what you're doing, it's kind of the end of the answer.
Brandon:
Yeah. Well, and that's the best way to approach it, I think, both as a listener and as you are somebody that's both done the sort of DIY independent approach and been signed to a major record label. You know better than somebody like me that just talks to bands all the time that it's just like, "does it connect with you?" Is it good? Do you enjoy it? Do you need to put any more pigeonholes on it? I don't really think so.
So I appreciate that. I love hearing that from somebody because I think a lot of people, a lot of like musicians of your caliber that have been, or have put out records have been in this music space, whether it was you guys went away for a little bit or came back or whatever the case may be. I think you've talked to musicians like yourself that know what you're talking about have, have, have toured have, have put out some great music. It's like, who gives a fuck? I like that you say you're kind of out of the discourse of it all, because at the end of the day, when you do that, what you're left is, do I enjoy this on my commute? Do I enjoy this in my car? Do I enjoy this when I'm at home genuinely like, meticulously listening to music and actually like enjoying it the way you would a movie or whatever? Like, do I like it or do I not? And who cares about the rest, right?
And that's the case with all those bands and the current scene is I think a lot of things, I think a lot of people are bringing a lot of different genres in together now in a way that hasn't been done in a lot of ways since you all came out in the newer era of metal in the early 2000s where people were mixing hip hop with metal for the first time, at least in the mainstream and different iterations of that. I could see where someone like yourself, especially in that space, can recognize that, right? Like Sleep Token's not doing the same thing that a lot of the sort of, if you want to call it nu metal or whatever the case may be of the early 2000s that did it great. They're not doing the same way, but they're doing the same thing where they're merging different genres of music in a cohesive way. And if you do, if a good song is a good song is a good song, then that's all that matters, right?
Cliff:
I think what appeals to me most about all of these bands is that they follow the courage of their convictions. And what I mean by that is that they are who they are, whether you give a shit or not, and they're happy to let you spin online and spew your opinions, but at the end of the day, they're looking forwards, not backwards. And I have a profound respect for that because it is very easy to get caught in the whirlwind of public opinion. And when you see artists that transcend that level of conversation in pursuit of an art that they believe in, that's the stuff that inspires you to connect emotionally with them. And that's why I think it's all just fodder. None of it really matters. What matters is how they approach the craft. And again, you listen to that song "Emergence" that it ends with a sax solo. And it's not, it's not that I need every song to be so diverse that it's got downtuned guitars and a sax solo. It's not like I'm measuring musicality. It's the courage of the conviction that you wrote a song that is so dynamic that it absolutely needed a sax solo. That's the part that I'm so impressed with. That's if I could emulate anything in my life, I want to emulate the strength of the courage of your conviction because that's what drives your success anywhere in anything. So yeah, that's the stuff. And again, it's not exclusive to them. It's really to any artist that is out there kind of doing it.
You look at guys like Jelly Roll, I mean that guy started in one place in his career now the three is now following the courage of his convictions. I'm sure there were plenty of people that had opinions about his career and music shifts and we have going from then till now but it didn't stop him. So those stories I'm just I'm just fascinated by.
Brandon:
Yeah, it's sort of the difference between following trends and making them, right? Because like we've are, we're already starting to see bands that are, and I think it's a good thing, right? Like emulating or trying to emulate the sort of Sleep Token model or like you say, Jelly Roll or all these different people of like fusing, there's a big thing in kind of like up and coming rock bands of infusing country in it. For the first time, we're talking about metal bands bringing in a little bit of that element into it and whether or not you like it, it's people trying different things because they see you can do it. And so that's, that's a cool thing. I absolutely love it. And I love that. That's your mentality on that. Cause that's mine as well.
Well, I'm again, Cliff, I'm happy to have you on here. I'm, and I'm happy to hear your opinions on music here to kick things off. Obviously I want to start with the newest single that you've talked that, that, that we alluded to earlier. "Now You Belong with the Dead" that came out May 2nd. It was the first single you had put out since Hindsight in 2022. So we're talking roughly three years in between singles. I know the band kind of came back in resurgence and put out your first single and your new iteration when you came back in 2018 and 2019 with, "Vices." You've kind of been in the trajectory of the last couple of years of putting out a few singles, kind of doing this as a very independent band.
And then you've been now more recently doing live shows. You just did Welcome to Rockville. I saw some videos of it and it looked fucking awesome. It looked so fun. And you were killing it out there with all the songs that you had put out. I think it says a lot to your vocal ability to the band's tightness as a band to come back out on stage in like a big mass venue and play some of these songs that maybe some of you hadn't gone full tilt before rehearsals, played in a decade, right? And yet you came out and it was this completely cohesive, fun, energetic atmosphere.
I guess before we actually get into the single, what's that been like? Kind of coming back, doing full tilt with the festival circuit. I know you've got some other festivals coming up over the summer later on in October, I believe as well. What's that felt like for you?
Cliff:
Yeah, it's a great question. I think that if there's one overarching emotion, it's gratitude. When we were approached late last year about playing live for the first time and reflecting on the idea that it's been 20 years since we released The Dead and Dreaming, it just began a conversation where we were like, yeah, I mean, that's something that would be really special. And at the same time, recognizing that the opportunity in front of us was not like, "let's just go play a venue and celebrate it to our fans." It was "let's step out on a larger stage than we've ever been on and play for more people than we've ever seen in a state we haven't been in a generation and see how it goes" for the most part. But it's one of those things that you just can't say no to and an opportunity that, again, we were so fortunate to be in the conversation with these artists, both the newer artists of today and the legacy artists that are anchoring some parts of the bill as well, it's wild. Again, I can't tell you that 20 years ago I would have ever dreamed this to be possible. And that's why no matter what I'm feeling about it, I am always feeling a tremendous sense of gratitude for the opportunity because there's a lot of bands that deserve it and for us to receive that opportunity is that's just not lost on us. It's just not something that that we we understand the the the gravity of the situation so.
Brandon:
Absolutely, and yeah, I'm sure that it was overall and like I could only assume that that would be the case there was an overall positive experience and things of that nature as far as the fan reaction of the live performances again, we'll get into the single and kind of going forward with the band but What does it felt like to you when you've come back and done these live shows? I know like the festival circuit It's like very easy to be sort of separated from the fandom a little bit You're not doing like a club show where you might see fans after the fact or that a case may be, but what's what's overall been the fan reaction of you guys coming back doing these live shows? Have you heard from diehard fans that are coming back, you get some new up and comers. What was the the consensus there?
Cliff:
We've always heard from audiences generally on socials "When are you playing live again? When are you playing live again?" And these festivals provided a great opportunity to kind of return to the stage at scale. We've only played one show so far, Welcome to Rockville. Our next two shows are smaller headliner club shows next Friday and Saturday in Brooklyn and in New Jersey and those are different to your point a different environment different audience but I think what I've noticed what I noticed at Rockville: we haven't been around in twenty years so we don't have much context really anything we don't know how anything's gonna work and to see fans that were there the last time we played Florida to see fans that listen to us when they were in high school to see fans that just found us online and had no exposure to us and this is the first time we can't believe we get to see you. It's really been amazing just to meet folks and kind of hear and see their relationship with the music. Last time we played any of these songs The Dark Side of Nonsense was just a couple of years old.
The Dead and Dreaming was a brand new record. We never toured the US on A Vengeance and Violence. So to see people's relationship with the music as we're playing our first show back is really like, it's really just overwhelming isn't the right word, but it's impactful. You see it and you recognize that these songs have a meaning you never necessarily would have ever imagined they would have. And it's not something that like, we witnessed over time, it's not like, oh, we've been out here touring and over time people love them and that's cool. Must be because we're touring on them all the time. It's just this happened in a vacuum and just kind of people just gravitated to the music and they enjoy the music and that's what's bonded them to us. Not a content strategy on social or a trend on TikTok or saw a set of well-produced music videos or anything like that. So, that show is amazing super excited to see what these headline shows are like because this is a far more familiar territory for what we're used to historically.
And then for the other festivals it's just really exciting for us to get back to these towns and cities and and and states because we used to play Wisconsin we've got Wisconsin so often when we're on the road we played Ohio so often California we were always there so now just to be able to go back and again, reestablish a relationship with the audience, play on these hallowed stages. Man, that's just the sick stuff. So it's just the good shit. So we're just so honored and thankful to be here right now talking to you in this moment. That's what it's about.
Brandon:
Well, I absolutely love that. I was going to talk about this a little later, but we'll jump to this a little bit. You've got the special shows coming up in Brooklyn, New York on June 13th and Clifton, New Jersey on June 14th. These are your only headlining shows as of now that you've talked about, at least on social media you talked about. Initially, the New Jersey one was going to be the only headlining show you're doing, and now it's two of them, right? To celebrate the 20th anniversary of The Dead and Dreaming, which is an iconic record for anybody that's sort of into the space of the early 2000s metal movement. How are you preparing for those shows? Like, I know you talked about that, at least on social media, you guys have talked about that you're going to do different sets at each one of them. You're obviously still celebrating this record. So are you playing the whole record and playing some greatest hits? Are you preparing for these kind of like with different merchandise? Are you preparing for them just for like a hell of a riot show? What's the space there and what's your reflection on this record being 20 years old? Because I honestly, as a listener, it took me a second when I was looking and preparing for this that it had been 20 years. So I can only imagine for you guys what that milestone is. Just all in all, how you're preparing for those shows, what's the legacy for this for you? And just speak to that a little bit.
Cliff:
Yeah, I mean, I think that a celebration is the right way to think about it. We're not we're not looking to just play the record in its entirety. We're not looking to only play new stuff. I think I think it's really just about the idea that New York and New Jersey in the tri-state area, we're from here. This was always where we kind of called home and the opportunity to play here again in this moment in time and to have these shows with these audiences in this moment, in this space is important. Playing a little bit shorter of a show due to time in Brooklyn just because of the set time. But the goal I think is to play a selection of songs from all of the records. Some songs we haven't played and over, sometimes we never played, some songs we only played once, some songs we only played in Europe.
So I think it's gonna be this collection of music that we think is like the best representation of the band over all of it. And we'll have a couple of some we play here, some we play there. We're still working out the set list now, but at the end of it all, I think we're just really most excited to see folks again and try to keep everything just as cheap as we could and just try to be like managed and reasonable and just like, we're just excited to see everybody after 20 years away. We just hope we play a show that everybody appreciates.
Brandon:
If you don't mind me asking, since obviously you're doing this in New Jersey, New York, a lot of your fans even just nationally here in the US let alone worldwide. won't, won't here's some of these songs that you, that you're alluding to that you've never played before, at least in the States. Of course you're talking about, of Vengeance and Violence, which you alluded to earlier that you'd never really got to even tour in the States. Is there any song or any, any part of these records, whether it's Vengeance and Violence or your other records you haven't played before that you're excited to do or that you're nervous to do that you haven't really done before like, or what's kind of the consensus there.
Cliff:
No, I mean, they're kind of burned into our memories just because we wrote them, no matter how many times we played them. And we've been rehearsing for months. We feel pretty good about it. It's not a matter of like, can we do it? Do we remember it? It's nothing like that. I think it's just exciting to think about playing these songs for the first time. If anything, I'm like, man, I'm an old man now. I got to get through 75 minutes. That's a long time. 30 minutes is only seven songs. You start to put together a longer set list. It's like, woo, child, that's a long time. So I think for us now, it's just like, we just want to come out, play the songs, have everybody have a really good time. We'll enjoy ourselves regardless. And again, it's just a matter of like, what do we think folks will be really excited to hear? And that's why we're just trying to put together a set list that we think represents that.
Brandon:
Yeah, absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. I'm excited to see those. I hope somebody is there with like a 4K camera or something and some good audio recording so I can live through them with that recording here in Illinois. But I'm excited for you guys to get to do that. I've seen in your social media that people particularly from the Midwest, like Illinois, Wisconsin as you talked about you played a bunch or whatever else. They're like "Come here come here do these shows do these shows!" and whatever else. Is that something you guys are thinking about at all when it comes to, whether it's a headlining show or or touring in the future as a support role or whatever the case may be of coming coming out a little bit more west to these other places whether it's 2025 2026 whatever the case may be to kind of revitalize that like live show aspect for your fans in like the Midwest or other areas in the United States.
Cliff:
Yeah, I mean, listen, we've done a lot of touring in the Midwest and we have a tremendous fondness for a lot of the states that were playing in like Wisconsin and Ohio, California, Florida. The states we played in all the time so for us the ability to return in a capacity where fans may already be or already be going, so we're not adding an additional cost or burden to your life. That feels like maybe the right way to reintroduce the band at scale to audiences that know us but yeah I'd love to return to all the same venues again the same way we're doing these East Coast shows. I'd love to do them in the Midwest, I'd love to do them on the west coast and I know that our agent would also love to see us do these shows. I think for 2025 we've set the table well for our intentions and for being able to kind of reintroduce the band in a meaningful manner. And now the number one thing folks were asking us for was to play live and I feel like we've done a good job of achieving that.
And the second thing people ask us for is "when do we get more music?" So we'd like to come home from all of these shows and then begin writing again and start to think about putting together a collective body of work that maybe this time next year we could be in a similar position. Perhaps there's a international component. The crystal ball swirls. But I know that the key to having success tomorrow is living in the moment today. So we're going to enjoy these shows. We're going to do the right thing, make sure that everybody's as well represented as we can be, that the audiences that are there as engaged as possible. just want to do our jobs and play a great show for folks because everything comes from that.
As long as we're doing that, we're controlling what we can control. I can't control whether I go to the moon. I can't control whether I go on a world tour. I can't control whether I get asked to go back out on the road as a meaningful capacity. I can only control the fact that I can produce a great show the next time I'm on stage. So I'm going to focus on that. We're going to focus on that and we'll see what happens. It's worked for us so far. We'll see what happens.
Brandon:
Yeah, no, I love that. And I love kind of your approach and I'm sure it's the bands in general after this time of like coming back, I'm sure you could talk a lot about different things of the earlier iteration of the band from being very DIY and being very independent and working with these different sort of indie labels to then being with Roadrunner Records and all this kind of stuff. And kind of the differences between the rat race and enjoying the moment and all that kind of stuff. Right.
So it's good that you can come back and enjoy for exactly what you're saying, which is in the moment presently loving what you're doing, putting out some new songs. People get a taste of like what 2025 Dry Kill Logic sounds like, which is a good amalgamation of your previous sounds while clearly understanding that you all have broadened a lot of other influences in your lives, which anyone else would, it's kind of like if you were releasing albums up until this point, it's just kind of that space between that's missing of your influences. And it's cool just to hear your perspective on that. I appreciate that. And that's like a really positive and constructive way to look at live music and look at releasing music. And in an era that I think a lot of people kind of are really trying to grasp at things in a lot of ways and not enjoying the live show and not enjoying the music for the art and the fun that it is, right?
Cliff:
Yeah, yeah, no you nailed it.
Brandon:
to, kind of get into what I was, I was initially going to get into here. Like I like to, I like to break down music with bands a lot. I think it's really interesting for listeners, whether they're aspiring musicians or just fans of your work or someone that's never heard of you before. It's kind of hear your perspective and like what, what, like your perspective on songwriting is. Right. So obviously you've put out records, in decades past, you've put out several singles when you guys came back since 2018. And again, your newest song, "Now You Belong with the Dead."
I absolutely love it. I first and foremost love that it's like a five and a half minute long song. I love when bands, and this is why I kind of like have a soft spot for Sleep Token as long as well as like bands like Chevelle or all these other bands that like continue to like just do what they want to do. Right. Cause like so, so much now when it comes to social media and things like that, like the number one push you'll hear from people in the music industry, from the business side is like three minute long songs. You got to do the commercial aspects. You also got to make sure there's a little tidbit you can do for a 22nd TikTok reel or whatever the fuck it is, all that kind of stuff. And instead you guys put out again, for song about three years. Like a great five and a half minute long song. I would say like very dynamic, something that really like, shows a lot of your influences, dynamics and everything that people can expect from Dry Kill Logic.
I guess like first and foremost, I know a little bit where the song title comes from. I don't always ask people about this, but I heard this from another interview you did. You want to give people a little bit of a tidbit of where that song title came from. Cause as a horror movie fan, I thought it was pretty interesting. You want to give that tidbit first.
Cliff:
Sure, It's a quote, it's a line from the original Mummy movie, spoken by the heroine, where the full line is, "I loved you once, but now you belong with the dead." And I think when I heard it, again, I'm not a huge horror movie fan, but when I heard the line and when, I was trying to think of a title.
And I had a lot of things that I wanted to say about how I was feeling and that was expressed in the song. And everything I was thinking of just felt very blunt. And I don't necessarily like, my own stylistically, I like more poetic song titles and direct lyrics. I don't like direct song titles and abstract lyrics. That's just me, that's not, for whatever it's worth. And when I heard it, I just thought, "Now You Belong With The Dead" was a great way to express being angry about something and how you feel about something, but also how to express the act of letting go and being able to move on from it. And I just really it just resonated with me, especially around how I was feeling at the time. So I'm very thankful that I found it because I didn't have any plan B. And when I read it, I was like, wow, this is actually amazing. So yeah, so really happy with that.
Brandon:
Yeah, yeah. I remember that movie pretty distinctly. I grew up in a household where my dad showed me all the 1930s, 1940s black and white, like the monster movies of the mummy or the werewolf or whatever, that kind of stuff. And so when I heard that, when I was kind of prepping for this, I went back and watched the movie a little bit and found that. And I was like, yeah, shit, that's actually in there. That's really cool.
But you you spoke to, and again, I know some people don't always like to dive deep into their own lyrics. I know people like to leave things for the listener. So if you want to do that, that's okay. I get that. I do like to deep dive lyrics with people as well as the songwriting. So when it comes to lyrics of the song, you said your lyrics are pretty blunt. I would say in this song, like I would say they're very like relatable broadly. Like you could kind of broadly relate it to things. We can also see where, I can also see where you're saying they're very blunt. So to go for you and go as in depth or as broad as you want. What is the song about? What did the lyrics mean for you? What are the influence behind them? And just kind of speak to that for me.
Cliff:
Yeah, I will choose to keep my subject matter to myself, but I will say we all have experiences that leave impressions. And it's hard sometimes to wrestle those emotions to the ground and to get in control of them. Sometimes we find that in today's world things can become so overwhelming for a variety of reasons that it's hard to get past that initial emotion? And I think that for me, having music and feeling the need to express myself in a certain way through song helps me deal with how I feel about things at the time, because you can be really mad, and then if you spend 20 minutes screaming about it, at the end of it, you're just so tired that you're not mad anymore. And it works well to kind of release the energy that you feel in the moment, and I think that because part of the productivity of being somebody that's creative. You can go out and you can paint when you're frustrated, or you can go cook when you're mad, or you can design and your art can take form. So that part, I think for me, has been really helpful.
Look, at the end of the day, I think what what I noticed in this song was my desire to try to maybe be a little bit more eloquent in my lyrics, and whereas if you read my lyrics and you might see the rhyming, the phrasing, and the way I phonetically build song structure on the first record or even the second record. It's a bit of an evolution in how long a single line of thought can last across a verse. It's a different approach to melody and carrying melodies longer versus just single syncopated lines. So from a songwriting perspective I try to stretch as broadly as possible because again, it's okay to fail.
And you understand that being successful at anything means you could never really be successful at it. You just try as hard as you can and continue to grow. But at the end of all of it, we're comfortable in who we are. We know who we are. And I think that the dynamics of a core, nucleus songwriting team like J. Brendan and myself that have been together for decades, it's always gonna kinda sound like us. And as long as we stand in service of the song that we recognize as the most important thing is a song that we're proud of, then I think that we're confident wherever that song lands. And if you look at every album, like if you look at the first record, you have songs like Pain and A Better Man Than Me, and then you have dynamics like Goodnight. And everything in between, from a tempo perspective, from a singing to screaming perspective, and that's kind of carried true throughout all of our bodies of work.
I think that it's no different as we start to think about these new songs or what would potentially come in the future. As long as we're comfortable with the song, we feel really good about it. We're happy to release it, but ultimately the audience, such as yourself and everybody else that consumes it, are the ultimate arbiters of whether that song is successful or not. And listen, we're not always going to get it right, but we're comfortable and confident in who we are and we're happy to put out music that we believe in.
Brandon:
Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's a great way to break it down while also leaving the overall meaning behind the song for the listener, which as you said, which I totally appreciate when people do that as well. One other question I had about kind of the songwriting of this song, and I guess in general, it's like the singles you've put out as compared to the albums you've previously released I've spoken to a couple of bands have been from around the era that you've been in and gone on.
And one of the bands that I spoke to is he said for every album they would end up doing as time went on, they had to add more and more and more time when it came to the songwriting, because it took more and more effort to make sure they were putting out things that were different, original, still their sound and still them.
As opposed to, you, you're young, out your first two records, you can kind of just have angst and sit down with a guitar, sit down with a microphone or whatever the case may be and let it rip. Right. So I guess like for you from a songwriting perspective, and like you said, you've had your core, you've had your core when it comes to songwriting for quite a while now overall with Dry Kill Logic's legacy. how have you felt like the difference of songwriting has been for you all? Has it been more meticulous now? Does it feel more cohesive? Have been have like the differences in technology when it comes to being able to sit in your room and write made a difference kind of what's the change now or what are the similarities between putting out a song like your most recent song, "Now You Belong with the Dead" compared to your albums and kind of speak to that a little bit with the trajectory of the band.
Cliff:
Yeah, it's an interesting question. Ultimately, I don't know if there's been any sort of direct intention when it comes to the songwriting aspect. At the end of all of this, we've always just kind of approached it as "what is the most articulate way to get our point across." And if you think about the bodies of work from the beginning until now, there's some change that you control. You're inspired by different things, you think about different things, you are exposed to new music and new lines of thought.
And then there's some change that you can control. After twenty years, my voice has shifted and I'm singing a higher register now, which has always been impossible for me historically, but is now quite easy but it puts a strain on the lower aspect of my voice. But in truth, we've had twenty years off to kind of re-energize our life experience to be able to write new music. And to your point, when artists are continuously producing, it can get hard to find creativity on demand. That's not easy. I mean, how many great songs are there out there? How many songs had to be written before somebody wrote "Stairway to Heaven?" And how many great songs have been written after that? If you think about how many songs are written every day and how many great songs there are in the world, there's not a lot, right? So it's a very hard job.
But the only way you can do it is to have skin in the game. So for us, it's a dual-edged sword. We haven't written in a while, which fills our coffers, but there's a lot we don't know about things, right? That we're still learning. And to your point, whether that's production techniques or equipment or how things are done. And when I look back at bands that have been in the scene for the time we haven't been, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the work that they've put in and the way that they've been able to find inspiration and find the ability to continue to put out new music and feel good about it and then realize you have to go back in and do more. So I have a profound respect for what it takes to continue. And that's why for us to be in these conversations with those folks, it's again, it's just super humbling because you recognize the work that they've put in to get to that point and to share that stage with them, like, we're happy to be here, man. We're very impressed.
Brandon:
Yeah, and also I think like there's a different aspect of itfor you all, it's not something you get to talk to with bands very often with where, you all came back, after well over a decade to put out new music in 2019 and you've had your few singles that you've put out. To kind of like come back and hit the ground running after so long is, it's impressive.
I'm sure you all in your various aspects, no musician ever leaves music no matter what you're doing. But there's a big difference between doing that, or even if somebody was doing a different project, coming back to your projects of Dry Kill Logic and then releasing a song, right? What does that even look like a decade later? What does that even look like for influences or everything we've already spoken about. So it's not like it's any easier in some ways to come back after all that time and jump on the bike, so to speak, right? And the fact that the singles you've all put out over the past several years have been so great and also cohesive with your previous music kind of just shows authenticity, I think, first and foremost that regardless of what you're doing, maybe some fan would say something here or there.
Like people always have their opinions. People always have kind of what we were talking about at the beginning of the podcast with Sleep Token, some other newer bands. But just the fact that you're able to authentically kind of tap into that same ethos or whatever speaks to your genuine drive for the song. And I think that's kind of what sets any band that you talk about, whether they're bands you toured with in the early 2000s, the mid-2000s that are still around today orwhether it's new bands we were talking about before.
I think what you can separate people into is authenticity versus like chasing something. It's cool that you kind of talked about the higher register thing with your newer songs with "Now You Belong with the Dead." When I first heard "Now You Belong with the Dead," I was like, "wow, I didn't know he could, in the chorus, I didn't know he was, he could soar like that with the vocals." And like, what you're alluding to is like, that's how your voice is now, right? And you kind of roll with the punches and do the melody that works best with the voice. And so at the end of the day, a good song is a good song is a good song. And it's cool that you're still able to pull that out. So.
So it seems like so naturally with your bandmates still after all this time, that's really like a testament to your all kinsmanship, both with art and your work ethic together. That's a tough thing to do to come back after over a decade and continuously put out songs that still feel like your old sound, but bring in new elements.
Cliff:
Yeah, no, and listen, I appreciate that. Thank you for the kind words. Ultimately, I think it's a testament to just, how close we are as friends and, we're just very comfortable together and we can speak openly and freely and we trust each other. We work collaboratively and cohesively. We're not, No one's in it to be right. Everyone's in it to get it right.
The good thing about being in it to get it right is that you're under no obligation to be right. Because if the only way to get it right is for you to be right, that's a lot of fucking responsibility, because what if you're wrong? But if you work together with people and you realize getting it right maybe means they're right, well shit, you just got brought along for the ride. So at the end of the day, it's like this is all just inertia around the song like how things work together. I everything I learned in life has come from being in a band and those lessons I apply every day in many many instances and they always ring true. If you apply the same level of thinking that you do when you're in a band or when you're writing a song it applies to anything you do in life and the concurrence of those two has been eerie at times.
Brandon:
Yeah, yeah, I can only imagine. Well, Cliff, I appreciate all those thoughts when it comes to the music and the songwriting and everything in between. Another question I just kind of had, and you kind of alluded to it earlier about writing other music and things of that nature, but with "Now You Belong with the Dead" coming out this year, you've had a couple of singles come out since your resurgence with the band over the past several years. Is there any talk of an album? Is there a talk of an EP? Is there a talk of what's coming next as far as the music releases from the band? Because I think for a lot of listeners, they love the singles, right? I absolutely love them personally. I'm sure people are like, you've consistently put these out, you're now doing shows. What's next in that aspect? Does it come whatever may? Have you talked about that with the bandmates? What's the thought process of the future there? If you can speak to any of it.
Cliff:
We've got these shows locked up. The number one thing everybody's asked us for, like we said earlier was "When are you going to play live again?" And now the question that we get is, "When do we get more music?" So we've got these shows and we're going to keep it with these shows we have right now. We feel like that's a good articulation of the band and its first formative steps in nearly two decades live. But we're super excited to get back into the room together and start to write again. The process of finishing off "Now You Belong with the Dead" as a band was really exciting. We've got Kevin in the group now on the drums, which adds a new dynamic. Our producer, Greg Thomas, is just the most wonderful person to work with. And we have such a profound level of respect for him and his ability that to be in a studio with him is incredibly inspiring. We're all huge fans of End and his guitar work, but his ability again to make people feel really comfortable in an environment and be vulnerable and try new things is maybe his greatest gift. for us to be able to put these songs together and go home and be really excited, come home from the playing the shows and start to work on new music and put them together and then get in the room with him and start to really hammer out what they can sound like. I think that's what's next for us. So hopefully we'll be in a similar conversation next summer talking about a new body of work.
Dare to dream knock on wood who knows but where we're just super excited to get back in the room start to think about what more new Dry Kill could sound like.
Brandon:
I didn't quite realize that he was also a member of End, which, you also had your latest single mastered by Will Putney, who you talk about having your thumb on the pulse of new heavy music. That guy's got it on everything. His fingerprint is on every new release that seems like it's massive. So you're working with those guys. We can only expect good things coming from Dry Kill Logic coming forward, right?
Cliff:
I mean, we look at that opportunity the same way we think about these live events with the Danny Wimmer Presents folks and all the folks that have given us opportunities. We're just so grateful and so fortunate to be in the room with people we consider thought leaders in their space and to have their knowledge and abilities kind of applied to us and our music. Man, that's beyond a dream level. We never we never would have thought that these things were possible. So to be in these positions now, we just know that to fully live in the moment, we're not taking any of it for granted. And we're just looking to work as hard as we can and enjoy it as much as possible.
Brandon:
Well, again, I absolutely appreciate that insight. It's absolutely great to hear somebody like yourself come back into the swing of things, kind of on your own terms, I think, which is also awesome. You're not getting put pressure on by other people from some contract or something like that. You're doing this because you love to do it. And the fans love that they get to see you on these festivals as well as the live shows.
Going forward, say you take a more direct approach with this band or you get some opportunities to play some different shows, what are a couple of bands, whether they're bands you played with in the early 2000s or some of the bands we alluded to earlier with newer ones that you really enjoy? What are some bands, like if you could, any of the bands, there's no limit on the kind of industry aspect of it that you could play with, whether it was headlining or supporting them. What are a few bands that you would love to play with going forward if you wanted to name drop some people?
Cliff:
Sure, we're a band that would always tour with anyone that would have us. So we've toured with everybody. And some of them have been great, and some audiences love us, and some audiences could take us, and some audiences will leave us. But I think we've always done well when we've been firmly rooted in the genre.
So I would say that the two tours historically that I think about that were successful for us were Fear Factory because it was the first tour we were on and we were really exposed to what I would consider a scaled metal audience that was really receptive to the genre. our our our co-headline tour, not co-headline, direct support tour, I suppose, with Drowning Pool because they were really accommodating to us and the fans really appreciated the band. So as I think about where to go forward, I think that it's with a similar approach. So I think like, God, wouldn't it be great to tour with Mudvayne or wouldn't it be great to tour with Disturbed or wouldn't it be great to tour with Hailstorm like bands that we have profound respect for that are legacy in the genre, but that we know have an audience that are familiar with us that appreciate the kind of music. When we think about like, what would it take for us to be a direct support?
I just think it needs to be first and foremost again putting the audience first and putting ourselves in a position where we can bring the music to an audience that we know would appreciate it. As much as I would love to tour with Knocked Loose or Kublai Khan or any of the more good Slaughter To Prevail, I love those bands. Those singers are killers in that band and I love the music. But we would just get eaten alive. So it wouldn't make sense for us to be on those tours. I would certainly go to watch them and that's why I love being on the festivals with them because we get to go fanboy out and watch and just absorb all of this intensity. And I think that's really a part that we've loved the most about the festivals is just being able to see so much great music, so many great bands and just kind of look at what's going on in the world and appreciate it for what it is. And like we were saying earlier, just to live in that moment, that's really important to us. again, we're just super thankful for that.
Brandon:
Yeah, absolutely. Cliff, I really appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to break all of this down with me.
Cliff:
Thank you, fella, I appreciate you.
